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Mart1000son
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,845
Location: England
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 Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:22 pm
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| The Muffin Man wrote: | The real issue is no one is cracking down on non-profit untaxed organizations giving shitloads of money to this cause rather than helping to keep their schools and buildings in good shape.
Or worse, no one is doing anything to stop OUT OF STATE organizations from funding a STATE-WIDE attack. People outside of Maine have no right to vote or fund either side. Argue about it? Sure. Have an opinion about it? Of course! Fund it? No. It literally does not affect you until you go to Maine. And even then, it doesn't affect many people in Maine.
Mart: Connecticut would be a good place too. Our Republican Governor is ridiculous liberal sometimes (pretty sure she's pro-gay marriage and pro-choice.)
The only way a Republican would survive in Connecticut is to either be a left-leaning 'Pub...or be Joe Lieberman. |
The problem is while the fundies play dirty, the pro gay side doesn't, we either need to make sure the fundies can't essentially bus in money by the truckload for these campaigns, or get some sort of alternative network set up to help our side
I still maintain that if we make sure everyone on the rpo gay marriage side, including relatives, freinds, in-laws, etc, is registered and will go cast their vote we'd stand a decent chance, unless c-notes double as ballot papers all the funding in the world won't help if you get damm near everyone on your side to go outr and vote
Generally people not on one side or the other tend to abstain, if there was only some way for get more of them to vote. It'd be a good idea to get the Log Cabin Republicans on side too, I can't see any of them being pleased at the result in Maine
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Red
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 248
Location: In my own little world...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:47 am
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Anyone who thinks things like Civil Unions, Power of Attorney and living Wills are enough needs to read this story.
Hospital Denies Woman to see Dying Partner of 18 years; Judge Dismisses Lawsuit
THIS is why Gay marriage needs to be legalized. I would hope that a story like this changes the minds of some people who would otherwise deny loving gay couples the right to marry.
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Mart1000son
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,845
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:58 pm
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| Jackson Memorial wrote: |
For more than 90 years, the institution has taken great pride in serving everyone who enters its doors, regardless of race, creed, religious beliefs or sexual orientation |
And yet...
| Quote: | | We arrived shortly after 3:30 in the afternoon, around 4pm, a social worker came out and introduced himself as Garnett Frederick and said, “you are in an anti-gay city and state. And without a health care proxy you will not see Lisa nor know of her condition” |
To quote Fomay:
"You are so ugly so butt ugly why won't you die? I would like to stab in the eye with a really hot french fry"
Who is that guy? Jesse Helms Junior?
| Quote: |
I immediately asked for a Catholic Priest to perform Lisa’s Last rites. A short time later, a Catholic priest escorted me back to recite the Last Rites and it was my first time in nearly 5hrs of seeing Lisa. After seeing her I knew the children needed to see her immediately and be able to say their goodbyes and begin the grieving process. Yet the priest escorted me back out to the waiting room. Where I was faced with the young faces of our beautiful children to explain “other mommy” was going to heaven. |
I'd ask how he can he sleep at night but I have a feeling it's in a nice comfy bed with several underage boys
| Quote: | I continued to assert myself over the ensuing hours again that we needed to be with Lisa. I even showed the Admitting clerk the children’s birth certificates with both Lisa and my name on them… and said if you won’t let me back, let her children be with her. I was told they were “too young”. I thought how old do you need to be to say goodbye to your mother?
In nearly eight hours, Lisa lay at Ryder Trauma Center moving toward brain death – completely alone |
No way in hell I'm buying that, when my dad died I was let in the see the body and I was 16, my brother and cousin 14 and it helped me a lot, unless kids see proof with their own two eyes they'll never fully accept/admit it
| Quote: | | It was then that individuals from the Organ Donation Agency became involved (who I must point out are completely separate professionals from Jackson Memorial Hospital) that I finally was validated as Lisa’s spouse. They asked me which organs she wanted donated. |
At least they treated them like a loving couple, although I do winder if the organ shrotage had something to do with it
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BlackWolf
Jump City Ex-Con
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,247
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:52 am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6Yq4Xnytos&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
I agree, we really do need a DOMA
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I wish people would stop being so classist as to assume that just because I am a janitor at Wal-mart, that I need big government to protect me
I'd rather have trickle-down economics than trickle-up poverty
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:36 pm
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Hmmm. You know, I honestly don't know why so many people are against this. Why not let the states themselves decide whether or not the civilains have the right to marry a person of the same sex? Many people I know of, like me, don't support it, but they don't wanna be against it. I know, sounds weird, doesn't it? The main reason for this, is because I am growing up with a bible, I attend church every friggin' Sat./Sun., but every gay person that I've met has been very kind to me, and is just like everyone else.
And it may be wrong for some people to be totally against it, but calling them names such as 'bigot' is not going to solve anything, and will make you look immature. Another thing that sort of irrates me is when people say, 'That's so gay.'. I know they don't mean it as an offensive term for homosexuals, but, c'mon.
Also, I notice those who are mainly against this are those who are around 29+.
And, I notice how some gays are in one group, and straights in another, and bisexual men/women are all around. What the fudge is up with that, dude? Can't we all just get along?
...have I already posted in this thread? O_o
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I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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BlackWolf
Jump City Ex-Con
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,247
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:49 pm
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| Quote: | | Hmmm. You know, I honestly don't know why so many people are against this. Why not let the states themselves decide whether or not the civilains have the right to marry a person of the same sex? |
Before I considered myself a conservative, this is something about conservatives that have alienated me for quite some time, at least during the Bush era. They always talk of how a federal mandate should be a last resort, and that anything less obstructs the economy and society as a whole. Yet somehow, gayness is just so offensive to them that they have to contradict their philosophy to stomp out the gay, and they tried to pass a federal amendment.
They don't see a certain danger in letting corporations do/pay whatever they want, but they see a danger in letting gays, individuals who have much less influence on the overall population, get married. It wasn't even an issue of publicizing marriage, it was an issue of gay marriage will destroy the values of this country because we will contaminate society with our evil damning sin lifestyle pandemic, and our military men will catch the pandemic of girly eye-liner, pixie-dust, and faggotty-ass-cowboy bootsness.
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I wish people would stop being so classist as to assume that just because I am a janitor at Wal-mart, that I need big government to protect me
I'd rather have trickle-down economics than trickle-up poverty
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BlackWolf
Jump City Ex-Con
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,247
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:44 pm
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Speaking of neo-cons, we now report back to you, Miss Opposite Marriage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBwnDqcfMFg&feature=popular
"I can't believe we're still talking about it! But I'm on Larry King Live talking about it!"
Sarah Palin is her hero? Yeah, that's all I need to know about her.
Larry King was being inappropriate? Didn't he ask the same questions Hannity asked her? The only difference is in which interview CARRIE decides was inappropriate.
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I wish people would stop being so classist as to assume that just because I am a janitor at Wal-mart, that I need big government to protect me
I'd rather have trickle-down economics than trickle-up poverty
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Azelma
Super Moderator
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,525
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:00 pm
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| KristyStar wrote: | | Many people I know of, like me, don't support it, but they don't wanna be against it. I know, sounds weird, doesn't it? |
It "sounds weird" because it's insane, KristyStar. Make absolutely no mistake: if you aren't with us, you're against us. "Church" is not an excuse. The most devout Christian I know is also the most dedicated supporter of gay rights (and yes, marriage) I know. You don't get to hide behind your Bible as an excuse for not examining your beliefs, and I think I told you that the last time you posted in this thread. It seems like even you recognize that what you have been taught is completely ridiculous. Why do you continue to cling to your antiquated worldview despite overwhelming evidence that it has no basis in reality?
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DragonShadow
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,327
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 9:17 pm
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| Azelma wrote: | | Why do you continue to cling to your antiquated worldview despite overwhelming evidence that it has no basis in reality? |
This pretty much sums up the entire pro-rights argument right here. Nothing else should ever need to be said again.
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:07 pm
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| Azelma wrote: | | KristyStar wrote: | | Many people I know of, like me, don't support it, but they don't wanna be against it. I know, sounds weird, doesn't it? |
It "sounds weird" because it's insane, KristyStar. Make absolutely no mistake: if you aren't with us, you're against us. "Church" is not an excuse. The most devout Christian I know is also the most dedicated supporter of gay rights (and yes, marriage) I know. You don't get to hide behind your Bible as an excuse for not examining your beliefs, and I think I told you that the last time you posted in this thread. It seems like even you recognize that what you have been taught is completely ridiculous. Why do you continue to cling to your antiquated worldview despite overwhelming evidence that it has no basis in reality? |
I am not using church as an excuse, dude. I'm saying I'm not with it, nor against it. I'm on my own side, I suppose, one of the 'middles'. If you think I'm the only one that thinks this, come to my town, hun. And if I absolutely had to choose, I most likely would vote they gays could marry. I know it's immpossible, but I do want people to be happy, and if that means I have to vote for them to marry then so be it. And not everything I've been taught is ridiculous, if that is what you are implying. (But if you are just talking about homosexuality, then yes, it is ridiculous)
Excuse me if my post sounded offending, it was in no way meant to. And if you are implying my opinion is 'insane' because I want people to be happy, then I don't know what more to say.
Do you now understand what I mean?
And, oops, I did post in this thread, didn't I? My bad. -_-u
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"Nothing is lamer then following the crowd, nothing is weirder then being normal, and nothing is better then you being you."
I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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The Muffin Man
Jump City Ex-Con
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 3,374
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:06 pm
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There is no middle ground.
"Middle ground" is what bigots use to differentiate themselves from the guys who attack gays because they don't want to think that oh crap you ARE a bigot, just not a violent one.
This is one of the few cases where "If you're not with us, you're against us" is valid. Hell, it's pretty much necessary.
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:16 pm
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| The Muffin Man wrote: | There is no middle ground.
"Middle ground" is what bigots use to differentiate themselves from the guys who attack gays because they don't want to think that oh crap you ARE a bigot, just not a violent one.
This is one of the few cases where "If you're not with us, you're against us" is valid. Hell, it's pretty much necessary. |
Well, if there is no middle ground, I suppose I am with you, since I don't wanna see anyone go without someone to love them.
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I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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FuzyNecromancer
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,241
Location: Susquehanna University
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:26 pm
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| KristyStar wrote: | | I don't wanna see anyone go without someone to love them. |
I don't then understand where your initial hesitation to commit came from.
| Quote: | | And if I absolutely had to choose, I most likely would vote they gays could marry. |
That seems to suggest that you never really were on "middle ground." I do not preclude the possibility that some people could have legitimate reasons for abstaining from a position on the issue.
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Sugar Rush: A Fanfiction Three Years in the Making
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"I feel that my sandwich may be small and inadequate." -MST3K, The Touch of Satan
Kitten x Silkie 4 evah! 8D
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Mart1000son
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,845
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:56 pm
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| The Muffin Man wrote: | There is no middle ground.
"Middle ground" is what bigots use to differentiate themselves from the guys who attack gays because they don't want to think that oh crap you ARE a bigot, just not a violent one.
This is one of the few cases where "If you're not with us, you're against us" is valid. Hell, it's pretty much necessary. |
I agree, with most stuff, like which football teams better, you can stay impartial, even Israeli VS Palestinian debates you can do that.
But human rights, no, you don't get to abstain, you're either for it or not, there isn't, there can be, no middle ground, it's one of the very few times when you've got to grow a pair and come down on one side of the fence or the other
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Buzzard
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,762
Location: Crescent Cactus
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| Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:17 am
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KristyStar, is it really so hard to just admit that the idea of gay people doing gay things to each other icks you out, but not so much that you'd be comfortable denying gay people basic human rights? The idea of malicious scumbags using the name of Jesus to justify their bigotry and hatred icks me out, but I can still recognize that it would be unamerican to try to legally force them to stop.
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DieselWeasel
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Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 145
Location: upside down in midair
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:56 pm
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I believe being gay is okay. It's like that Avenue Q song "If you were Gay"
XDDD Free cookies to whoever knows that song!
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:07 pm
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| FuzyNecromancer wrote: | | KristyStar wrote: | | I don't wanna see anyone go without someone to love them. |
I don't then understand where your initial hesitation to commit came from.
| Quote: | | And if I absolutely had to choose, I most likely would vote they gays could marry. |
That seems to suggest that you never really were on "middle ground." I do not preclude the possibility that some people could have legitimate reasons for abstaining from a position on the issue. |
Uhh...that's why I said, 'But I don't wanna be against them'.
Huh? Sorry, I don't really understand...what you said...
| Quote: | | KristyStar, is it really so hard to just admit that the idea of gay people doing gay things to each other icks you out, but not so much that you'd be comfortable denying gay people basic human rights? The idea of malicious scumbags using the name of Jesus to justify their bigotry and hatred icks me out, but I can still recognize that it would be unamerican to try to legally force them to stop. |
No, no! It, to me, is just as if a woman and a man were together. I just was afraid that I would be punished for diagreeing with something in the bible. I will gladly admit that I support thoe who are gay, and that I'm catholic, at the same time. What I said before must have been a little confusing, though. I did not want to go against my church, but I did not want to deny them rights. It doesn't gross me out though. I just upport it, okay?
Now, my mother, on the other hand...she isn't like that.
But hey, what can you do? =(
Weasel: That song's so funny!
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"Nothing is lamer then following the crowd, nothing is weirder then being normal, and nothing is better then you being you."
I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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The Muffin Man
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:08 pm
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You are really bad at this back-pedaling thing.
You said yourself you don't like the idea, but never why you don't like the idea. Never an explanation ("I'm afraid to go against the Bible" is about as far from a reason as you get).
It doesn't matter that you chose a side NOW because that's not what we're arguing. We're arguing why it was ever an issue.
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:39 pm
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| The Muffin Man wrote: | You are really bad at this back-pedaling thing.
You said yourself you don't like the idea, but never why you don't like the idea. Never an explanation. |
Ahem, can you find the sentence where I outright said, 'I don't like gay marriage'?
That is my reason, the bible, if you want to know. That is my explanation. It is wrong that the bible says that, but, I'm as religous as some of my family members are superstitous. I'd be afraid I'd be punished for it. You can call me a coward for fearing that, I don't care.
And it shouldn't be an issue. We should put our disagreements aside and just have everyone in the states vote, so everyone gets a say and everything's all worked out and done. I don't know if every citizen would be willing though.
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"Nothing is lamer then following the crowd, nothing is weirder then being normal, and nothing is better then you being you."
I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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Azelma
Super Moderator
Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:53 pm
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| KristyStar wrote: |
That is my reason, the bible, if you want to know. That is my explanation. It is wrong that the bible says that, but, I'm as religous as some of my family members are superstitous. I'd be afraid I'd be punished for it. You can call me a coward for fearing that, I don't care. |
I suggest you talk to some LGBT Christians, or even just some pro-gay Christians. No, that is not an oxymoron. They could say this better than I can, and more convincingly, but I will say it, too: being gay is not wrong. You will not be punished for thinking that it isn't or for saying that it isn't. Who would Jesus discriminate against? What would he think of people who use his name as an excuse for it? And what was that he said about how people won't like it when you speak the truth?
I think he'd want you to speak it anyway.
| Quote: | | And it shouldn't be an issue. We should put our disagreements aside and just have everyone in the states vote, so everyone gets a say and everything's all worked out and done. I don't know if every citizen would be willing though. |
No, actually, we SHOULDN'T. How would you feel if we had "everyone in the states" vote on whether or not KristyStar should be allowed to get married? How would you feel if we all voted on what kind of job you were allowed to have? Whether you were allowed to adopt children? Whether or not we fired you? What if we voted on allowing you to see your dying husband in the hospital? Would that be fair? Would that be right? Would that be Christ-like?
Human rights should not and cannot be put to a popular vote.
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I guess we're big, and I guess we're small
If you think about it, man, y'know, we've got it all
'Cos we're all we've got on this bouncing ball
And I love you free, I love you freely
it's your movie; you're directing
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:03 pm
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| Azelma wrote: | | KristyStar wrote: |
That is my reason, the bible, if you want to know. That is my explanation. It is wrong that the bible says that, but, I'm as religous as some of my family members are superstitous. I'd be afraid I'd be punished for it. You can call me a coward for fearing that, I don't care. |
I suggest you talk to some LGBT Christians, or even just some pro-gay Christians. No, that is not an oxymoron. They could say this better than I can, and more convincingly, but I will say it, too: being gay is not wrong. You will not be punished for thinking that it isn't or for saying that it isn't. Who would Jesus discriminate against? What would he think of people who use his name as an excuse for it? And what was that he said about how people won't like it when you speak the truth?
I think he'd want you to speak it anyway.
| Quote: | | And it shouldn't be an issue. We should put our disagreements aside and just have everyone in the states vote, so everyone gets a say and everything's all worked out and done. I don't know if every citizen would be willing though. |
No, actually, we SHOULDN'T. How would you feel if we had "everyone in the states" vote on whether or not KristyStar should be allowed to get married? How would you feel if we all voted on what kind of job you were allowed to have? Whether you were allowed to adopt children? Whether or not we fired you? What if we voted on allowing you to see your dying husband in the hospital? Would that be fair? Would that be right? Would that be Christ-like?
Human rights should not and cannot be put to a popular vote. |
No, I didn't mean it like that. I meant, we should all group together and discuss this civilily, not exactly vote. I'm sorry, I should state things more carefully, and I didn't see/mean it that way. 
And unfortunately, it's very wrong. But some people, like the people who were racist against blacks, are racist against gays.
And nothings wrong with being gay or black.
And blacks eventually won equal rights, so perhaps, if we try, we could get equal rights for gays.
And I didn't mean being gay. I meant going against the bible.
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"Nothing is lamer then following the crowd, nothing is weirder then being normal, and nothing is better then you being you."
I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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murdoch
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Joined: 15 Sep 2009
Posts: 128
Location: It's Always Shitty In, California
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:50 pm
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| Quote: | No, I didn't mean it like that. I meant, we should all group together and discuss this civilily, not exactly vote. I'm sorry, I should state things more carefully, and I didn't see/mean it that way.
And unfortunately, it's very wrong. But some people, like the people who were racist against blacks, are racist against gays.
And nothings wrong with being gay or black.
And blacks eventually won equal rights, so perhaps, if we try, we could get equal rights for gays.
And I didn't mean being gay. I meant going against the bible. |
I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "homophobic", or just plain "prejudice". It's not possible to be racist against something that isn't a race, but you can be prejudice, unfortunately.
I'm pretty sure what Azelma means is that, there shouldn't be reason for debate in the first place. Just like how there really shouldn't have been any debate whatsoever about black people to have the same rights as white people, there shouldn't have to be hesitation to allow gay people the same rights as anyone else. We're all people, so wouldn't it make sense for all of us to treat each other as people?
Treatment meaning rights such as marriage, pursuit of happiness, and what have you. Hope I cleared something up there, or else this post was useless. xD
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the_evil_lemon
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:10 am
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Who would Jesus discriminate against? well non jews of corse!
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KristyStar
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 422
Location: Jump City, California, where else, dudes?
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:21 am
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| murdoch wrote: | | Quote: | No, I didn't mean it like that. I meant, we should all group together and discuss this civilily, not exactly vote. I'm sorry, I should state things more carefully, and I didn't see/mean it that way.
And unfortunately, it's very wrong. But some people, like the people who were racist against blacks, are racist against gays.
And nothings wrong with being gay or black.
And blacks eventually won equal rights, so perhaps, if we try, we could get equal rights for gays.
And I didn't mean being gay. I meant going against the bible. |
I'm pretty sure the word you're looking for is "homophobic", or just plain "prejudice". It's not possible to be racist against something that isn't a race, but you can be prejudice, unfortunately.
I'm pretty sure what Azelma means is that, there shouldn't be reason for debate in the first place. Just like how there really shouldn't have been any debate whatsoever about black people to have the same rights as white people, there shouldn't have to be hesitation to allow gay people the same rights as anyone else. We're all people, so wouldn't it make sense for all of us to treat each other as people?
Treatment meaning rights such as marriage, pursuit of happiness, and what have you. Hope I cleared something up there, or else this post was useless. xD |
Oh, my bad. xD Predjuice, it is, I suppose.
I know. And I had a talk with my dad about the bible, and now I'm totally confused. My dad doesn't give a flying crap what they do together, but he does care if they get married. He is with the A&E thing.
And we should treat eachother like people.
Yeah, you did, no worries.
xD Really corny Lemon.
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"Nothing is lamer then following the crowd, nothing is weirder then being normal, and nothing is better then you being you."
I'm happy to say I no longer hate Terra, just dislike her. *Cough*thankmurdoch'sManicStreetstoryforthat*Cough*
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the_evil_lemon
Jump City Citizen
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Location: new zealand
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:23 am
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well he is king of the jews so haha
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