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RavenStar · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:36 pm

1 and 2 happen in the comics, actually:

So both sides will be satisfied - though, I am expecting a bit more fighting and less talky mind games, though I do prefer the more tension-building latter myself.

EDIT: yeah, I got the rest of the Evil sides of the Titans:

Robin - though, in the comics, he's already Nightwing by this point, and clearly - unless the writers throw us for a loop, this will not be Robin's situation in "The End":

Starfire and Beast Boy:

The other two are Wonder Girl and Kid Flash, so they don't play into this.

By the way, do I have to mention the comic version is dark as hell?

angrichild · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:15 pm

Ah... hehehe. So The titans are auctually going to be Raven's slaves? Like she didnt get spoiled enough in stranded. But I thought that in the Raven arc in the comics, Raven made the titans evil by planting tem with seeds or something like that.

EDIT: just read the starfire one. THOSE WERE HER PARENTS?

RavenStar · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:37 pm

The trigon seed thing in the comics wasn't until the mid-90's, angrichild. The Terror of Trigon story came in 1984.

Undr · Jump City Citizen **Joined**: 28 Nov 2004 **Posts**: 1,039

wow... ok you win, I want to see that. screw my worst fear idea.

Sphere · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:01 pm

I want to see how they're going to adapt without the very important plot devices of Azar's rings, Wally, and Lilith.

No, seriously, I don't know.

RavenStar · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:15 pm

*roots for the mirror to return*

and if anyone noticed, Raven had the Book of Azar when she went for counsel with Arella in "Prophecy." Wonder if that'll play into it at all?

Fledgling · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:49 pm

Potassium · Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:54 pm

Undr · Jump City Citizen **Joined**: 28 Nov 2004 **Posts**: 1,039

She had the book that contained the symbol of Skath(sp?). If the Book of Azar had it I doubt she would take the time to look through all the other books she wasnt familer with.

RavenStar · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:35 am

grr...I should've known better to check first.

Oh well, I'm still rootin' for the mirror to play some part in "The End."

gogoedward · Jump City Citizen **Joined**: 17 Mar 2005 **Posts**: 336

Perhaps Raven will use her mirror to help her come to terms with herslef, combine all her personality traits and then bring back white Raven to beat Trigon once and for all.

angrichild · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 6:27 am

I dunno. I think Raven auctually died in that arc. And arella acted as gatekeeper to get rid of trigon? Bleh. something like that. I think I'm going to have to start checking out the comics. They seem to tell me way more about the arc than the crackpot theories here.

BlueZinthos · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:50 am

True, Arella was the gatekeeper to keep Trigon where they sent him, but there is no guarantee that she'll show up in "The End". And Raven didn't technically die, she sent her "soul self" off so that the souls of Azarath could consume her and defeat Trigon. So her soul is still out there, just not in her old body. Besides the crackpot theories are half the fun, especially since they gave so many clues linking pieces of the comics to the ending arc.

Fledgling · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:45 pm

Max Bosis · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 2:52 pm

*roots for Janus to return!

BlueZinthos · Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:16 pm

Fledgling wrote: In the show, Arella's either currently a free agent or Trigon has control of her. Either way, I have a feeling that we'll see her again before the dust settles...

--She's too good a character to not have her make another appearence, but I'm curious to see how big a role her influence plays into Raven turning around against Trigon at the end and how much of it is Raven finally not being passive/fatalistic and saving her friends and the world... she's not really negative as a fault but a lot of it is the way she was brought up. The people of Azarath we really not big on being helped. Raven turned out pretty strong for being raised in that environment (although some of that could have been Trigon's "seed" as well)

Fledgeling: And yes, Raven (as a soulless demon herald and Daughter of Trigon) died.
She just got better. Razz

--Okay, you win, Raven (the red four eyed Raven) DID die and get better) Rolling Eyes

Fledgling: As for crackpot theories, by knowing the source material (the comics), one can make as "educated" or "wild" a guesses as desired. I am serious at times, but I find the wild ones extremely satisfying. Very Happy

--As do I. And sometimes even our most serious theories take a strange turn when we see what the writers actually do. As was said before by someone, what is the fun of doing something exactly that same as it was done before?

Fledgling: They are like the Lottery: fun, but not meant for investment purposes. Wink

And once again: Just because something was done in the comics does NOT guarantee it will be done at all, or even the same way, in the show.[/quote]

--So true

Pandora · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:03 am

Evil Bob · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:14 am

Unbridled Joy of Flight · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:15 am

Perhaps Raven spends time in some other-dimension at some point where a lot of time passes for her, but not everyone else? Or perhaps it's some visual side-effect of demonization (note Trigon's long white hair)? Just some thoughts.

That said, I like Pandora's idea better. It's cooler... Very Happy

Yea Arella! Dance

Fledgling · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:58 am

Butho · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:50 am

BlueZinthos · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:35 am

Fledgeling wrote: [/quote] It's sort of difficult to tell, but it would not appear to me that enough time has elapsed between Birthmark and The End to justify the first time her hair grew out.[/quote]

My guess was that the other titans did get turned to stone and that the world was in its state of destruction for some time. Who knows how long the battles between the real titans and their "bad" selfs took, especially in alternate realitly world. Bad Raven may have been enjoying her little reign for a while before something triggered her to come to her senses and draw on her "other selves" and become White Raven.

But as Pandora said, it takes practice to keep up with the whole crackpot theory thing Wink

That Ever loquacious fan · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:01 am

That, or White Raven is post-resurrection Raven, in the sense that like in the comics, the palette-swap Titans kill Demon Raven so the MYSTIC POWERS OF AZARATH (WOOoooooOOOH) can bring her back as a purified force of good. The long hair is that, strangely, in DC Comics, resurrection often causes the hair to grow longer.
For example, when Superman came back from being killed by Doomsday, he had one heckuva mullet going on.

Though honestly I was also shooting for the whole "insane time ellipsis between the Titans being turned to stone and Raven being purified" thing, myself.

Undr · Jump City Citizen **Joined**: 28 Nov 2004 **Posts**: 1,039

wow, I dont know much about the comics, but they kill Raven in the comics at this point? I wouldnt put it past the comics, but I dunno about the TV Show. even if she does come back to life right away. It would make for a good dramatic scene.